The Case of the Second Gate Italian Restaurants: Tutto Italia & Wine Country Trattoria

[00:00:16] Ciao, Buongiorno, and welcome to the Supreme Resort, Land v. World, a podcast about Disneyland and Disney World, which is the Supreme Resort. Each episode we'll discuss and explore each resort ride by ride, land by land, park by park, and restaurant by restaurant to determine which is better. I'm your host, Jimmy, and thank you for joining me on this quest to help the greater good of humanity answer this long elusive question, which is better, Disneyland or Walt Disney World? Joining me as always is Dan.

[00:00:43] Hi, I'm Dan, and I'm currently arguing which one is better, scurvy or diarrhea. Ah, you had some lettuce. And Eric, ciao. I had Taco Bell last night, so... And this morning. Speaking of Taco Bell. So let's see how things go. We're about to talk about the Taco Bell of Italian restaurants. I stole that from Dan. But before we do... I thought you were going with, we're about to taco bout. Oh, that's better.

[00:01:12] Oh, we're about to taco bout. Taco Bell of Italian restaurants. Yes. Okay. So first, do we have any news? Do we have any latest news? We don't really need to get into D23 and whatever. That comes up in August. Stuff has happened at Disneyland. What happened at Disneyland? Oh, there's... No more Park Hopper limits. The... Sort of America. Park Hopper. Uh, Park Hopper. You can now park hop. But something else... What happened? Something else happened. I don't...

[00:01:42] It'll come to me. All right. Did it start on fire or...? No. Do we have to get one of those breaking news beep, beep, beeps whenever you remember? Boop-a-doop-boop-boop-boop-boop. Anyway. This will be the sound. Hi, I'm Hewell Hauser. No, that's your cue, Dan. Okay. Whenever you remember the thing that happened. Okay. Well, we are gonna go to Disneyland later on. I'm excited about it. A day in the fall. Mm-hmm. For no particular reason, just because. Yeah.

[00:02:10] And then I'm going back with my family in December and we're staying at the Grand California. They changed that, right, Millennium Falcon. They changed Millennium Falcon. Yeah. Is it more gooder? It's so much more gooder. That's awesome. I can't wait. The There are different places you can go to. But I love just hitting buttons. Mm-hmm. You can still hit buttons. Don't worry. Oh, okay. You don't actually have to do much. But it feels like.

[00:02:38] Rumor has it there was, it used to be a Chewbacca mode and now there's a Grogu mode. Is that right? There is now a Grogu mode. Yes. I played on Grogu mode because of course when I went, it was right after they reopened it and because single writer is the engineer most of the time and engineer chooses where you went. I was like, I'm going to collect them all. And I went again and again. And one of the people, one of the groups that I went with had been on it a bunch of times and they were like, we're going to do Grogu mode.

[00:03:07] And it's not as much fun because with Chewbacca mode, what was fun about it is it sounded like he was angry with you the whole time. Mm-hmm. Where in Grogu mode, it sounds like you're disappointing him. And that's less. That's sad. You don't want to disappoint Grogu. Right, right. Speaking of disappointing in Grogu, that movie, The Mandalorian and Grogu was, it was just good. It was a good episode of The Mandalorian. The end. That's right here. Still haven't seen it. End of review.

[00:03:36] Um, did see, I watched John Wick, all four John Wicks and man was that first one good. And Keanu Reeves is a horrible, horrible actor, but it had like a storyline. Like there was a through line. The whole, all four movies are basically the same story. Mm-hmm. And I thought it was like. He's the talk of all of actors. Oh my God. A hundred percent. Um, really good to look at, but anyway. I don't think he was asked to do any acting in those movies. I think he had four lines.

[00:04:05] He was asked to shoot people. Yeah. It was just, at some point you just run out of creative ways to kill people. Yeah. But it was like, um, he, he's like, uh, the roadhouse guy. Like, he's just like, he's got this. Jake Gyllenhaal? Watch where you're going with this. Not, not Jake Gyllenhaal. Not the new Roadhouse. No, the character. Like he's just a really good bouncer. This guy's just really good at creatively. You mean Dalton? Dalton, excuse me. I thought he would be bigger. He has a name. I thought he would be bigger. Anyway. Um, so yeah, he was a horrible actor.

[00:04:33] I think he has like five lines of dialogue and the whole thing. Uh, but that first one was really, really good. And then. There's one that like little, he's got this legend, you know, like Dalton's a legend. This John Wick is a legend. And like, he killed three guys with a pencil and they actually showed it in the second one. It was very clever. Anyway, then they lost me, but I watched all four of them over like a 72 hour period on airplanes. I liked the staircase ending of four. Oh my God. That. Yeah.

[00:05:03] That was just, it was the duel. Yeah. The staircase on the way up to the duel. Yeah. Yeah. Where he was fighting his way up. Yeah. I would say I would recommend John Wick one as a, fine film with bad acting. Okay. Um, to wick wicker man, where we talk about John Wick. Yeah. It's all because of the, the office ladies podcast. They love the Keanu Reeves and I got turned on to John Wick because of that show.

[00:05:29] Well, on the next episode of wicker man, we'll talk about, Oh, this is a Supreme resort. And every episode is somebody's first. Welcome to the Supreme. I'm going to, and this is what it's like. If this is your first, welcome. Because when you're here, hold on. I'm not going to. Because when you're here. Yeah. Okay. So what a wonderful transition, Dan, because today we are here to talk about the case of the second gate Italian restaurants.

[00:05:57] Now, I, before we go there, I want to just put a disclaimer out there for the listener. We are probably going to intentionally or unintentionally engage in a little bit of playful stereotyping that I just want to say, if it, if it bothers anyone, we're talking about Italian restaurants in a theme park. The theme park. These are in fact, the Taco Bell of Italian restaurants.

[00:06:27] There's a translation layer there. We are playful. We would, it's, it's playfully playing with the lack of authenticity that is inherent in the thing that we are talking about. Yes. And I think it's fair to say, so we are going to stereotype in the same way that Disney stereotypes, i.e., when you go to Italy at the Epcot Pavilion, that's not Italy. That's just the stereotype of Italy. That's like the, you know what I mean? And what do you hear when you think Italian music?

[00:06:56] Boo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. That's what this is. That's just, play it. There you go. That's right. This is a good example. So just have this in going through your head every time we do some kind of potentially offensive stereotype. That's it. We're just, we're not, we're not making fun of the culture or you or your family. We're making fun of the mishandling of it.

[00:07:23] Well, you may be thinking I'm talking to you, but I'm really talking to you. Oh, forget to subscribe. Oh, you. Oh, you're talking to you? Yeah. Oh. Okay. I like, I like them. Okay. Anyway, so today is the case of the second gate, Italian restaurants. Now we'll see if it's Italian or Italian by the end of this. And I hope we appreciate what Italian means when referenced to this.

[00:07:52] Okay. So the, they are Tutto Italia, which is at Epcot in the Italy pavilion and wine country Trattoria, which is in the California section of California adventure. Or is it in the Italy pavilion of California adventure? It's yeah. That's where it is. It's in the Tustin section. It's in the Tustin section. It's in the Tustin section. The Tustin. Somebody thought it was Tuscany. Tustin. Tuscany. Tuscany. Tuscany. Tuscany.

[00:08:22] Anyway, so Eric is going to be arguing for Tuto Italia, which is, it opened October 1st, 1982. Now, not as Tuto Italia, but he will get into that. Uh, and then Dan is going to cover wine country to Trattoria, which opened December 14th, 2001. He will get into the history of that. Those are the two restaurants that exist in that space as of today. Now, if I really enjoy something that Eric said, and I think it's point worthy, you're going to hear this sound.

[00:08:50] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. See, the Sopranos did it too. Um, if Dan says something about wine country, I'm not gonna be able to say this place. Trattoria. I, you're going to hear it when I like it and point worthy, et cetera. You're going to hear this sound. When you're here, you're family. There you go. Yep. Now that of course is Olive Garden's famous slogan.

[00:09:16] By the way, Jimmy, I just want to congratulate both of us for avoiding getting into a stun lock with talking like provost for like 20 minutes. Yeah, it's tough. I have so many mixed feelings about that, man. I'm incredibly jealous of him and he just frustrates the hell out of me. Yeah. But he's it's it's it's not hate watch, but it's jealousy watch. I just a pen. I'm putting a pen in this for later.

[00:09:43] We need to talk about Patrick, but David at some point because I don't know who that is. Enjoy him. Okay. Yeah. I don't get that. Does he make a lot of videos? And do you subscribe? He's well, we'll talk later. Okay, great. I'm on the show. Like I need to make a note or just later. Just later. I mean, we can do it now, but we've been sitting here for a while. We sure have. Okay. As in an hour and 15 minutes in our show prep flicks into Supreme Resort after hours, where

[00:10:11] you'll hear some delightfully off color jokes that turn your friends off. Okay, so the first of all, the overview of these restaurants, Eric, because Tuto Italia came first, I will let you give an overview of the restaurant. Okay. Tuto Italia Ristorante opened, technically opened in September of 2007.

[00:10:35] It's original opening was at the, was as Alfredo di Roma in 1982. So it's got a long history of being in the parks as the Italian restaurant, which is the exact place that you want to eat heavy pasta right in the middle of the Florida sun. Hmm. Hmm. Regional Italian table service. Oh, Alfredo sauce.

[00:11:04] It's, it's, it's exactly the sort of place that you want to visit when you go to Orlando. Now Dan or Eric is the name Alfredo by any chance where the sauce came from? Oh, well, funny. You should mention when we get to the, if, are we doing, if we're going to do the history not yet. Well then, but yes, here's, here's a little teaser. Yes.

[00:11:32] The Alfredo is the Alfredo. He invented the sauce. That restaurant invented the sauce, but not in, not in Florida, but it's like the fettuccine Alfredo dish somewhere else. But Alfredo is like, is, was that restaurant like the, the Lake Buena Vista, like location of that restaurant? No. The hint is it might be in Italy. Oh. Might be the same guy.

[00:12:02] Fun fact. Fettuccine Alfredo, not on the menu of Tutto Italia. No, but it was at Alfredo di Roma. I'm sure it was Alfredo's. All right. Anyway, that's, there's your overview. Yep. That's my overview. Well done. Daniel wine country, Trattoria. What is the overview? I have an overview in the form of an opening statement in the winter of 2001 in a dark, in a corner of a park that did not yet know what it wanted to be.

[00:12:32] A restaurant opened its doors. It was not grand. It made no promises. It could not keep. I have an objection. It's had quietly. Yeah. In no way is that a corner. That's like smack dab in the middle. A corner, like in a friendly, like it's a corner. Yeah. It's not really a corner. Yeah. I could. The judge technically. The section of the, of the circle that would operate as a corner.

[00:12:58] If it were a square that did not yet know what it wanted to be. A restaurant opens the doors opened its doors. It was not grand. It made no promises. It could not keep. It sat quietly beneath the painted Tuscan sky in a place called golden wine winery, a name chosen one imagines by people who had never been asked to choose a name before. The wine family had already gone. They arrived in February.

[00:13:24] They were gone by October and in December, two months after the last real Vintner turned out the lights, the wine country tutorial opened anyway. It had never met them. It would never meet them. It was from its very first day, an orphan raised by a corporation doing a passable impression of the family. It had never known. There is a review. You may have heard of it in the year 2012 and Grand Forks, North Dakota, North Dakota,

[00:13:51] a woman named Marilyn Haggerty walked into an olive garden and did something almost no one does anymore. She told the truth that she felt it. The chicken Alfredo, she wrote, was warm and comforting on a cold day. The building was impressive. The entryway, welcoming. The internet laughed at her. And then a man named Anthony Bourdain, who had built an entire career on not being impressed, stood up and said, stop.

[00:14:16] He said, her decades of quiet reviews were a record of an America that the rest of us had been too proud to look at. He said we needed to see it. And later he put his name on her book and wrote that anyone unmoved by her work had a heart of stone. This is our baseline. This is our founding document, not Michelin, not the guide, a woman in North Dakota and the assignment she understood better than any critic alive.

[00:14:43] Did this place succeed at being the kind of place it was trying to be? And so we ask as the light comes up over a stucco wall in Anaheim, over a fountain carved to look older than it is. Over gators, the entire nation seems to have forgotten it left sleeping in the gondolas of a pavilion pretending to be Venice. We ask one question. Does the wine country Tartoria clear the Maryland Haggerty standard? The defense intends to prove that it does.

[00:15:12] Because when you're here, you're family. Wow. Dramatic. So it's very well done. Very well done. Mike, the way you read things. Yes. That was well done. Thank you. I have things to read too. Okay. So very well done. What was she reviewing? Olive Garden. Oh. Have you not heard of this? No.

[00:15:40] It was the thing that the internet talked about in 2012. She wrote a very sincere review of the Olive Garden, probably not fully understanding that it was the Olive Garden. Yeah. To her, it was just the new Italian restaurant that opened in our small town. That reminds me of a story real briefly. Um, cause originally I thought you were talking about, she reviewed wine country Tartoria. Oh no, no. So there, I was in Cincinnati.

[00:16:10] Uh, it was years and years ago, probably 10, 10 years plus. And I'm traveling around with this guy. He's taking me out. We've seen customers and that kind of thing. He's like, we gotta go to this restaurant. It's right on the water. It is like a hidden gem. We just have to go. And all day he's talking about it. Just like a, probably 10 times. He talked about this hidden gem place. And then we roll up and it's Hooters. Yeah. You know, this is a franchise and the corporate office is in Atlanta where I live anyway.

[00:16:40] Um, all right, great. Let's move on to the history, Eric. Give me the history. Give me a little tease before you give me a little hint, little tease about Alfredo and the origin of the fettuccine Alfredo. I want to hear more. Well, if you want to hear more about it. So like I, like I mentioned, we, we talked about fettuccine Alfredo, that the original restaurant was actually a copy of the restaurant, uh, Ristorante Alfredo in Italy.

[00:17:05] So, um, uh, Alfredo de Lelio, uh, yes. Um, that's our, that's the, he named it after himself, uh, back to 1907, uh, when he, his wife gave birth, she, she was weak and she wasn't eating well. And according to legend, he decided to make her a more protein, uh, pasta.

[00:17:32] So he added three times the amount of butter that one would normally put on pasta. And he include included Parmigiano Reggiano, uh, to, to give her some sustenance. So really it's not a cream based dish. Like we see here most of the time, uh, it's butter, it's Parmesan. It's, it's pasta, but, uh, he, he wanted to thicken the sauce.

[00:18:02] And then in 1914, he opened up his own restaurant where he of course served his famous fettuccine Alfredo and many people went there. There, there are many pictures of people like JFK and Douglas Fairbanks that went to the restaurant to enjoy this particular dish.

[00:18:28] And he's literally, if you look at the pictures, he's literally shoving food in people's faces, which is hilarious. Yeah. I, uh, I Googled the original recipe and it's four ingredients. Yeah. It's a half cup of unsalted butter, four ounce Parmesan cheese, fettuccine pasta and salt. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, it's not like a big cup of cream in there, uh, which is what it has become in the United States today. Okay.

[00:18:58] But we've made it better. Oh yes. Yeah. Add more milk, more milk. Milk council says. Yeah. I, I, I'm not gonna, you know, it is what it is. The Alfredo at Olive Garden is hands down my favorite I've ever had. Oh, okay. Well, I dip my breadsticks in the Alfredo sauce. It's so good. Okay. I dislike Alfredo sauce. It's not a joke. It's legit.

[00:19:27] I love it. I'm tempted to make it. My wife's a big fettuccine Alfredo fan. So yeah. I've tried it in many, many places and it involves dipping, dipping things. And a white sauce. Let's not talk about what Dan dips into things. Okay. I would. Anyway, um, more history, Eric salad, more history.

[00:19:54] Alfredo's restaurant still stands in Italy, but unfortunately he does not stand. He does not. No, he has passed. He's long since passed. Uh, but really Italy doesn't embrace, um, fettuccine Alfredo like, like Americans do. Hmm. It's caught on more in America than it ever did in Italy. His one restaurant is the only place in Italy that really sells, uh, chicken and fettuccine Alfredo.

[00:20:24] Presumably because they have to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I suppose. Yeah. So ironically though, you go to Olive Garden, they have no olives. Well, there's so, there's like five olives in this house. You could ask. I worked there and the rule was two. Okay. I knew there was a number. Two olives. That was the rule. So what, it seems like you're implying that fettuccine Alfredo is sort of like the nachos of Italy.

[00:20:53] It, it has gone beyond what it was originally and Americans have made it their own. Uh, it's kind of like the hamburger, which originated in the port city of Hamburg. Oh, Germany. Well, when Epcot center opened in 1982 on October 1st, the Italian pavilions flagship restaurant was Alfredo di Roma.

[00:21:21] Uh, the restaurant doing a very good job with our disclaimer earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, it doesn't mean we have to do more. Yeah. By the way, since we're on a tangent, uh, the Earl of sandwich, actual person. I know it. Oh, wow. Sandwich England. Anyway, the restaurant was licensed. Don't you think this should just be playing at all times during this episode? Everyone lower the bed in post.

[00:21:51] Anyway, keep going. Yeah. I'll keep going. The restaurant was licensed from the famous Roman restaurateur of the same name, uh, who claimed to be. That's now it's distracting. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, it's dancing to it. And I can't keep it going. Oh, I was, you gotta keep it going because when it cuts out on its own, it'll be jarring. Oh, my goodness. Fine. Stop laughing. Stop dancing.

[00:22:19] All I can, all I can see is like red, red and white checkerboard. And a bottle of Chianti with a candle crammed into it. That's right. Anyway, he claimed to be the, the originator. Uh, the partnership gave Epcot something unusual for the time. A restaurant directly affiliated with a legendary European establishment instead of just making a Mexican place.

[00:22:49] Ah, the Jerry's dancing. How do you not? Disney wanted each pavilion to feature restaurants operated or influenced by companies from their respective countries. And, uh, Alfredo Di Roma totally fit that philosophy. So for 25 guests, the restaurant was famous for serving Fettuccine Alfredo. Wow. Veal. Wow.

[00:23:18] Sky anus. If you marry the baker boil and have a vanilla in the hand. Okay. If this is your first episode, Jimmy and Dan have, do the, the, the fingers thing and they call it sky anus. So, there you go. The fingers thing. You know where your fingers are all together facing the sky. That's what the joke is. Mangia. Mangia. Uh, they served asabuco. Yum.

[00:23:47] Um, regional Italian wines and traditional Roman recipes. I don't know what that means. According to. Recipes that were from Rome. Mm-hmm. Oh, oh, is that what that means? Tony Roma's. Oh, okay. Tony Roma's ribbed recipe. Goodness. Um. Yeah. Uh, according to Steve, Steve Birnbaum doesn't really write about this very much, but, uh,

[00:24:16] he says the big, the big deviation from Venice is that, uh, the Doge's Palace is in a different location than it would be in Venice. Great. In relation to St. Peter's Square. It's like, oh, okay. Okay. That's the criticism of the civilian. Thanks, Steve Birnbaum. Something is historically inaccurate. That's Disney theme park. At, at Emcott Center? Yeah.

[00:24:45] Well, that's really weird. Thanks, Steve. Well, he's gotta prove that he's not entirely in the. Nope. There we go. You weren't wrong. Yeah. He's gotta prove he's not entirely in the pocket of the Walt Disney Company. Yeah. I've noticed that. This is true. Last time I read the book, which was years ago, he would throw in these little things you get a fork that only has five prongs. It's just like dumb stuff, which is like, okay, Steve, we get it. Like you're not a shill, but you're totally a shill.

[00:25:15] He writes about, uh, about the golden forks at the restaurant. Right. And he writes more about paperweights at one of the glass stores in the region. So sometimes the Matterhorn's a little bit uncomfortable. Okay. Okay. Good job. But continuing on with the history, um, in 2007, Disney and the, um, Alfredo de Roma ownership could not reach an agreement to renew their operating contract.

[00:25:44] So after 25 years, they severed that alignment. Uh, really a lot of people did like going to Alfredo's. I know a lot of people, I don't have a distinct memory of going there when, when I was a kid. I don't, I don't think I went there. Um, any, either of you when it was, I went to Alfredo's. Yeah.

[00:26:09] I went to Alfredo's, uh, with my brother and he had an American express black card. I don't know if you know what that means. I guess it's like a unlimited, you could buy a boat with it or whatever, but it's not a very common card to have, I guess. And our waiter was very excited about this black card and he called my brother daddy and sat on his lap and asked if he could be his daddy. And then he, that's uncomfortable. Was he like a whimsical Italian character from so much?

[00:26:39] So Dan, that you remember the, uh, it was very close around that time of the Oscars when that Italian guy won for something and he walked across the seat. Oh yeah. Yeah. He did that. Nice. He walked across the tables to take the credit card to pay the bill. Oh yeah. In America, they take your credit card everywhere else in the world. You do it at the table. Wow. That's a little lesson for our foreign listeners. Yes. That's, that's, uh, that's fun.

[00:27:09] Um, well, uh, so that's why Alfredo's closed, uh, but they selected the Patina restaurant group already operating multiple restaurants in Epcot, uh, and throughout the United States. Patina didn't want to replicate the restaurant. So they completely reinvented Italy's dining experience, creating Tuto Italia, which we will talk about when Dan is done talking.

[00:27:39] But before Dan can start talking, I just want to talk about the Patina restaurant group, uh, which in Epcot operates Tuto Italia and space 220. And in Disney Springs operates Maria and Enzo's Ristorante, which I've never eaten at. Enzo's Hideaway, which I have eaten at and is fantastic. It's the little speakeasy downstairs underneath Maria and Enzo's. So Enzo has a basement where he serves you drinks and the same food.

[00:28:09] Uh, Parizza Ponte Morimoto Asia, strangely enough. And the Edison, which is also pretty great. And they own Centrico. Oh, at, at, at Disneyland. Okay. Oh, that, that's right. This Patina group. Okay. That place was not good. No, we didn't really enjoy that service was pretty bad. All four of us were like, uh, cool. We're tired and hot.

[00:28:39] Could you bring us good food? They don't say, Oh, space, too. Yeah. Anyway. So they tend, it sounds like they tend to do like swing and a miss or swing and a hit kind of places where it's like, like, cause like, for example, they, they took this place and they're like, Hey, this restaurant everyone loves let's fundamentally change it. Yeah. And, and I don't, I don't see like real complaints about Tutto Italia.

[00:29:08] Like people still like it, but it's still a place where you are eating hot pasta in Florida. Oh, you know what else they own for a future episode? Naples, restaurante and bar. Oh, we have already talked about this episode. That's a future episode. Naples and Via Napoli. Yeah. And Napoli a pizzeria they own as well. Yeah. And there's also the quick serve. What's the quick service at Epcot?

[00:29:36] Pizza point at Disney Springs is owned by Patina group. Yep. I mentioned that. Huh. I'm having fun. Okay. Well, uh, the wine editor tutorial. I mentioned it as well. Jimmy is not listening to Eric. I'm going to keep going. That's fine. Uh, Tiendita. Uh huh. They own Tiendita too, Dan. I, well, yeah, they, that's, that's all one restaurant. It's all the same restaurant.

[00:30:06] Oh, it is. Is that Paseo too? Yeah. Oh, all right. Sorry. Tutto gusto too. But anyway, um, continue on with your history that I'm not listening to. So, Hey, you know, uh, when DCA opened and everyone was like, Oh, one of the things

[00:30:30] they opened was also, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh. It was the, uh, golden vine winery hosted by Robert Mondavi. We'll get into that. Uh, way back when this used to be a little something called the wine country market underneath the golden vine winery.

[00:30:55] Um, it, it, it, uh, it was open for a couple months and you could, I'm looking at Yesterland. It's very, uh, solving gift shop sort of coded. Um, which let's be honest. A lot of DCA 1.0 was that why they don't have a solving area. I don't know. And you could walk, basically walk in and get, you could look at deli cheeses and meats

[00:31:24] and you could poke them and you could get pre-made foods and you could eat them. Um, and then according to this picture, you can purchase your food from a very nice lady with a ponytail and they had seating outdoor seating where you could eat all of your delicious wares. And I think they discovered that the seating was always empty.

[00:31:49] So they were like, Hey, maybe we should open our restaurant here instead of assuming that all of the riches are going to go to the golden wine vinery upstairs, which they didn't so much. Um, they said, Hey, what if we had a restaurant downstairs that was an Italian restaurant? Because what do you think of when you think of the Napa Valley Italian food, right?

[00:32:17] Um, like the French market. Thank you for confirming. Yes. Yeah. Um, so wine country tutorial itself opened in December of 2001. Uh, the Robert Mondavi family presented the winery at the opening. Um, and then Disney took over, um, shortly after the Mondavis left in October.

[00:32:40] Um, and the tutorial opened in December, meaning the Mondavis basically said, this is what the winery is going to be or what the, the tutorial is going to be. And they got everything moving. And then they were like, actually we're leaving.

[00:33:03] So it, it never, it has never once actually co-existed with the real wine people, but Disney was like, okay, that's our branding. We're going to be wine country. Let's hope it works. And this may or may not explain the kind of sparse decoration there that, uh, I think

[00:33:24] kind of maybe lends itself to a winery where you're like, Hey, let's go eat some food. And the winery made the winery and what is basically a open air garage. Um, there's no specific imagineer designer credited publicly. It's generally attributed just to imagineering. So when we ask who do we blame for this, basically nobody inherited it.

[00:33:54] Um, and it's just kind of been there ever since. Um, yeah, I, it's, I want to be clear. I don't dislike this place. I understand. Yeah. And I understand it has a fan base. I, I, I think I understand why I think it's doing a thing that is interesting in a very quiet sort of way. I like the al fresco at all. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:23] But if you're looking for one of those episodes where it's like, you know, head to head, a bunch of really interesting in-depth stuff for Disney world. And then Disneyland's like, Oh yeah, take that. This isn't going to be that, you know, of the 30 some odd wines they have listed on the menu, uh, glaringly absent is any Robert Mondavi.

[00:34:49] But there are a lot of, I forgot to mention there are a lot of, or at least there were at some point, a lot of vineyards of Disney people. Like, like the, like Fess Parker and Kurt Russell. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot that they did that. It's basically you can, you can drink all the wine that all the Disney people made. Um, okay. Sounds good. All right.

[00:35:15] Let us move on to the heart of the episode, which is the check-in process. I suspect that there's not much to say other than you check in on your app. Yeah. Uh, yeah. You make a reservation and then you check in. You make a reservation, you check in. Sometimes they see you in 30 minutes after you check in. Sometimes it's 40. Yeah. I mean, these aren't, uh, these aren't Disney owned restaurants, but they are aligned. Wine country is very much so. Well, okay.

[00:35:44] Well, I'm talking about the ones in Epcot, but yeah, they, they, despite being patina group, they, it's not like a ballast point where they're on open table. Hmm. Right. You're still, you're still on the main Disney app. Speaking of open table. And I, this was another news item. The Gordon Ramsey place is open at. I heard about, Oh, it opened. Okay. It looks expensive. It probably is. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, okay.

[00:36:12] Now let's talk about the, the details of the restaurant before we get to the food. Hold on. Check in process at. For you, uh, make a reservation on the app. It's all, there's always a reservation available. Yeah. That's the reason we've eaten there so many times. Uh, um, and sometimes they will be outside, um, out down below where the, the common area walkway is basically begging you to come eat at their restaurant.

[00:36:43] Is that right? They have barkers. Yeah. Like, Hey, did you know there was a restaurant here? Yeah. It's right there. That's a restaurant. You can eat there. Pork chops. Get your pork chops. Manja. Get your manja. Ah, good times. Um, okay. So let's talk about the details inside of the restaurant. Eric, you want to start? Okay. Take time, Eric. We don't have a whole lot to say about either of these really. I'm sure.

[00:37:12] Uh, so it opened in September, 2007 after a significant refurbishment. Footprints the same. They didn't change much. Uh, but they changed all of what we didn't change the like size of the restaurant, but they changed all the decorations. Marble flooring. Ooh. Head painted fresco. Venetian inspired lighting. Updated furniture. And is that Venice? Venice?

[00:37:40] Like Venetian as in Venice or as in... The planet. Not Venutian. Okay, thank you. Venetian. Got it. The other one. Uh, rich architectural details based on historic Italian villas. Uh, but they, uh, they wanted to represent multiple regions of Italy giving guests a broader culinary experience. So, uh, yeah. And you will be able to lower the volume of the music and pose it.

[00:38:08] Yes, I will lower the volume and pose it. I'm sorry. It's a pain to do it now. No, you're good. Um, excellent. Dan, you want to regale us, please? Can you eat inside? Is it all outside? Oh, you're inside. Yeah. Okay. I've only ever had tables outside. Same. For who? For which one? For the one you're about to talk about. Okay. Uh, there are seats.

[00:38:35] There are tables inside, but it's mostly outside and that's really the, uh, the appeal. In fact, last time I went, which was a month or so ago, I got to witness a woman completely losing her Supreme when she was seated with her, I assume boyfriend and they were seated

[00:38:59] indoors and she was living because she usually sits outside. And this, and I'm basically quoting here, this was going to ruin their day. Wow. To which I looked at the guy and he was just like, this is, I was trying to gauge, is this normal?

[00:39:26] You know, I used to kind of like, without being a jerk about it, it feels like this was normal and it feels like he was not a Disneyland person. And it was just sort of like, look, it's, it's hurting my head. So, uh, so yeah. Sounds like a great environment. It's fantastic. Uh, hold on. Al fresco dining largely. Al fresco. Yeah. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, um, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's

[00:39:58] look up Napa Valley architecture. It's that, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. It's not exactly Italian. It's, it's not an Italian villa. It's. It right. And so here's Italian. The question that I keep asking was why Italian, you know? Um, because so when the park opened, there was something called Pacific wharf, right? French laundry.

[00:40:28] That's what it's called. Sorry. In Pacific wharf restaurants, Italian restaurants, like French laundry. It was a joke. Anyway. Yeah. Um, you, you get that, you get the, the, the, the point though. And there's not really, they're not necessarily serving Italian at these places. It's more just like, Hey, everything was grown here, including the meat.

[00:40:48] Um, so this gets weird because when the park first opened, Pixar pier was Pacific wharf or Pacific pier, paradise pier, paradise pier. And that area was Pacific wharf. Right. Right. And so the actual macro theme to the whole thing was Monterey's cannery row, not wine country.

[00:41:18] The golden vine winery and trattoria is a themed pocket within that. So basically like cannery row is kind of adjacent geographically to wine country, like the actual Napa wine country. So this is a tortured connection to, to, for the, to begin with.

[00:41:44] And it gets even weirder when Monterey cannery row, we have golden vine winery, which is a Tuscan villa, which some imagineer was like, it's a Tuscan villa. So that means Italian American restaurant. Right. And then big hero six and, and, uh, San Fransokio shows up and cars land shows up.

[00:42:12] Basically it's kind of just the Italian restaurant in Disney, in California adventure. And nobody knows why it's there except for the people who built it, who are gone and maybe five people in the company.

[00:42:40] And decor wise, it's got, I don't know what to tell you. It's, it's, it's there, it's stucco. All right. But when you're there, you're family. I see. Okay. Uh, all right, let's get into the meat. No points so far. It's weird. Yeah. Really? Yeah. You guys are really good. Uh, let's talk about the food.

[00:43:10] Now I'm trying to figure out what the point of this is other than the fact that they're both Italian restaurants, both in second gate. Right. Do you want us to talk about the lunch menus or the dinner? Let's start with, let's start with lunch. We'll move to dinner. Okay. But we talk about the, um, the, so what, what makes these things better? Um, you know, clearly the atmosphere is whatever.

[00:43:35] Um, you know, it's stereotype Italian slash stereotype custom Napa Tuscany Napa is something disjointed surroundings. Um, so maybe the dining experience, maybe it's nice in Florida cause it's air conditioned. Maybe it's nice in California because Southern California famously in the evening time, it's pleasant, you know, you get a little ocean breeze or whatever. Um, so I'm not sure. Um, neither of you are selling this.

[00:44:04] So I mean, you know, we're going to a place where I could start to sell it. Okay. If we're going to sell it, let's, let's, let's do it. Your attention, please. Um, in Epcot, you're in the middle of a highly themed. Yes, that is true. Pod. That is true. That is an Italian restaurant, Italian themed restaurant inside of a themed Italian land. Yes. And it kind of, you kind of have to have an Italian restaurant. If not two spoilers. You do have, you, you have two and a half.

[00:44:34] So, cause there's like a pizza window too. Is that right? Yeah. There's a pizza window. So, well, I, maybe you even count three because there's also a wine bar attached to, to, to Italia. Okay. So then I wonder if I'm thinking about the, and maybe we're getting ahead, but does the Italian restaurant inside of the stereotype Italy pavilion, does it live up to that sort

[00:45:02] of, is this, if you, it feels like you're in St. Mark's square, right? Does it feel like you're an Italian restaurant in Italy? And therefore does the food have to be better because it's living up to that where it is? I mean. Versus the Italian restaurant that's just in a theme park. Maybe the food doesn't have to be as good cause it's not really living up to any particular theme. And perhaps the theme can be all over the place because the theming around is all over the place. True.

[00:45:32] You do kind of have to live up to something there. Um, but it's also America. And what does that even mean? Yeah. Yeah. But, um, the Nick Valenti, the CEO of, of the team, the patina group did travel around Italy to, uh, gather up, uh, chefs for, for both Via Napoli and Tutto Italia.

[00:46:02] So these are Italian chefs that are managing these restaurants. Yeah. They're Italian chefs. They, they buy a lot of Italian ingredients. Um, flour, the college program. Just kids. Yeah. I mean, I like that a lot. I, I, so there's a couple of things that I'm, and I, I am getting way ahead, but I don't think we need to take a lot more time with this. Well, I, I, I, so I know I've been, I haven't been pooping on this necessarily, but I haven't

[00:46:31] been really giving it its praises. And I think that, so the authenticity issue is, is it an issue or not? I don't know. I think that where this place really shines is it's less like an Italian restaurant themed

[00:46:53] to Italy than it is a nice, like veranda to hang out with your friends and like casually watch the world go by while Mater sings over and over again in the distance. Um, but I mean, it, it, it's got a vibe to it that kind of just exists when you have

[00:47:16] a shaded veranda with a fountain and tables that you can group together for large groups or not for smaller groups. Um, it's dining experience wise, the, the food it's, it's rated generally like a 3.4 to 3.5. We'll get to that. Yeah. And, and I mean, it's, you don't go here necessarily because you want authentic Italy.

[00:47:45] You go here when you want to like exist in the Olive Garden commercial, right? Totally. Not necessarily the Olive Garden. Um, there's a parade coming. Yeah. That's yeah. When they have a parade, then you could see the parade. Uh, you can lose your mind if you're seated inside and that'll be a very reasonable thing.

[00:48:10] Um, I, and I think also with the authenticity thing, this is for Californians generally. So it's not so much a, Hey, come to an Italian restaurant. It's more just like, Hey, you're on vacation.

[00:48:30] It DCA is I'm learning sort of like the ass it's, it's, I call it aspiration park because it's like, it's, it's more like the idea of going on vacation as a theme park. So you're on vacation. Yeah. It's only a day, but you're on vacation with this group friends and Hey, yeah, let's order another glass of, you know, $70 wine because we're on vacation.

[00:48:57] When really it's just like, you're there for six hours and the place really lends itself to that in terms of authenticity or theming. Most people who go here are like a four to six hour drive away from Vegas and they can go to Caesar's palace and get, get that there. Caesar salad. I can get a Caesar salad where it was. That's where it was invented.

[00:49:26] By Caesar himself. By little Caesar. By little Caesar. He found an anchovy and some ranch dressing and put it in a blender. So where, where I'm headed with this and we can talk more detail, obviously, but where I'm headed with this is that authenticity, restaurant quality reviews, whatever. I look at like, who's the head chef of wine country, Trituria. There's no one listed. Right.

[00:49:53] But the, the executive chef is Daniel Cecilia at Tuto. Mm hmm. You know, something. Although the, uh, Orlando's culinary operators include director of culinary Yuhi Fuji Naga. But are, but are they actually like putting the meat thermometer in the meat or are they just signing their name to the thing? That's right. Who knows? And, and, and, and it did sound like there's probably the way the thought put into it.

[00:50:23] The place opened up in 2007. So it could be, I mean, I'm sure they've had complete flip over of just like there's no Gordon Ramsay restaurant where he's back in the kitchen making food. He's got his name on it. Um, he's there. He's just standing there waiting. No. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I get what you're saying, but I would argue that Trituria isn't concerned with authenticity.

[00:50:52] It's concerned with vibe. Yeah. Okay. But what makes one over the other better? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah. Are we comparing it as an Italian restaurant? Are we comparing it as a total dining experience? Because if it, if the arguments about the best Italian restaurant in a second gate, then I think it needs to necessarily be one or the other. They, this can be just part of the rubric. Right.

[00:51:20] Cause if it's, if it's, if the food is the best and authentic Italian food, but that's all subjective. But the, but the, the, the restaurant is like gaudy as hell and has a dumb mural that no one really cares about. Then, you know, well, there are, there's a big mural and there are a lot of big chandeliers. If that's what you're referencing. They're hand painted frescoes.

[00:51:44] But then there's also, there's also a time and place for just like quaint, simple hangout enough theme that it feels like you're at a place, but not over imagine your nonsense where you have to like do research for it to be meaningful. Okay. Um, are we going to talk about the food? Yeah, let's do that. Do we need to talk about the food? Start with lunch. It's the same menu for both places.

[00:52:15] Now, where we started with this is a two to Italia is in the Italian pavilion. And it sounds like patina went out and kind of got Italian chefs to influence the menu, whether they're still involved or not. I don't know. Who knows? Pokemon with a bunch of Italian. But, but what, what I find interesting on the Disney world website and presumably the dinner menu or lunch menu of two to Italia is you don't start with appetizers. You start with antipasti.

[00:52:44] That's, and it's not entrees. It's secondi, which is, and they have, uh, contorni, which is the sides. Whereas at wine country, it's appetizers, entrees, and then of course plant-based cause you hippie Californians. So they're, they're, they're trying to stick with it. I mean, they also have kids entrees. Yeah, they do. The, the, at the two to is kids entrees. They don't have like panini. What are the kids called?

[00:53:15] Uh, linguine's the kids, the word for kids. Yeah. Hold on. Um, but if they're going to go for it, maybe they should stick with it. Bambinos. Bambinos. That's right. And then they've got dolci, which is the desserts. Yeah. And then they have birra. Birra and vino. Mm-hmm. So I do like that. That feels more like you're dining at an Italian restaurant than, than an, rather than an Italian restaurant. Right.

[00:53:45] They do have a specific, um, Amari. Okay. But let, but let's be clear here. Hold on. The most, the most Italian cocktail or, you know. The, the most Italian alcoholic drink is grappa. They do have grappa on there, but they've got a separate section of the menu for Limoncello, Sambuca, Amari, grappa. Oh, they do have a section for grappa. Oh, different grappas.

[00:54:12] Before we, okay, before we go down this road, at no point at Trattoria are they like, hey, welcome to Italy. Get ready for your authentic Italian dining experience. But what are we talking about though? Like what, what is the point of this episode is the best Italian restaurant in the second gate? I mean, I guess. I don't know. But does best mean most, most authentic? That's a great question. That's what we're trying to figure out.

[00:54:42] That's what Jimmy decides. Let's, uh, let's talk about the antipasti or the appetizers for you. They got pasta fagioli. They've got, everybody's gotta have calamari. Mm-hmm. Um, they've got, uh, polipo grigliato, which is grilled octopus. Mm. Yeah. With potatoes and pancetta.

[00:55:11] Uh, they've, they've got a Caesar salad, Jimmy. You gotta have that. I don't know if, I don't know if you're aware of this. Yeah. They've, they've got a lot of Italian, very Italian things. Carpaccio. Yes, they do. Salad with balsamic. Yes, they do. Balsamic. There's, yeah. Taglieri serves two people. It's prosciutto to a De Parma salami. It's like a meat plate. That's exciting. Yeah. Ooh, meat and cheese tray. All right.

[00:55:38] Uh, now you haven't eaten here? Not in a long time. And then they have, uh, salmon, swordfish, a chuck short ribs, Parmesan, Parmesan chicken breast, New York strip steak. Short rib. Like you do in Rome. Get that New York. Short rib with Maine lobster ravioli. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I gotta check this place out.

[00:56:07] It's been, it's been too long. I was wrong. They do have creamy Alfredo fettuccine, lasagna, gnocchi, spaghetti, risotto. What kind of price point are we looking at? Yeah. I think that's probably where I'm headed. The fettuccine is $26. The fettuccine is $26, but the, uh, risotto is $40. Uh, gnocchi is $29. Chicken Parmesan is $34. Okay.

[00:56:33] I also have a chicken parm, so we can use that as our baseline $32. Okay. Oh, similar. Do you have a, do you have a bologna spaghetti? Oh boy. Bologna spaghetti. Bologna. Bologna. Bologna. Oh, thank you. Yes. $29. Uh, 24. So I mean. Salmon. Eh. Tell them more. Salmon. Not salmon specifically, but we'll get into it. What fish do you have?

[00:56:59] I'm, I'm willing to say that basically these prices are close enough. Yeah. They seem pretty close. Yeah. Fair. And we don't know about the serving size or whatever. And you're kind of playing at Epcot tax over there. Um, let's see. Patina tax really. Yeah. Cause patinas try to make money too. And Disney's trying to make money. That's fair. Uh, so for lunch and for dinner or, uh, either. Okay. Okay. We got pull apart cheese bread. Yeah. $11. Cheese bread. Yeah.

[00:57:29] It. Okay. Look, there's, I'm sure it's good. Italian is only a third of the title. It's wine country. Trattoria. It's, it's, it's like, it's like a vineyard has a restaurant and they're like, hey, says Napa. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:49] So like, it's like there you're in Napa and this place in Napa has a chef who, I don't know, whose mama made a spicy meat ball. Um, so, so, you know, Hey, uh, so pull apart cheese bread. I've heard it's good. Uh, and, and the fried calamari. I've had it before. It is not frozen. You can tell by the texture. By the way, um, it's $14 versus 23.

[00:58:20] Oh, that's some serious patina tax. I wonder if there's more. Yeah. Grapefruit salad. Uh, it's not just the, it's grapefruit in the salad. It's not just a bunch of grapefruit with, uh, Caesar, Caesar dressing. It's a grapefruit dinner with chicken on top of it. Uh, and soup del giorno. If you enjoy the giorno. Hey, look at that. It's an Italian.

[00:58:46] See, um, got the chicken parm soup del giorno. And, uh, other one is, uh, pasta for sure. Huh? Uh, chicken parm, shrimp, Alfredo. Uh, which I honestly bold move for not having chicken. It's just straight up shrimp because Hey, California. And when you hear your family grapefruit salad, you can get with grilled shrimp and call it an entree. Uh, you got your hearty short rib pasta.

[00:59:15] Uh, the spaghetti bolognese, which is not bologna spaghetti. Um, so real quick, Dan, the shrimp Alfredo is $34. The fettuccine Alfredo is $26. Well, you get shrimp on it. That's right. That's what, what was it? Like $5 a shrimp. I don't know. It's summer. I'm not thinking about math.

[00:59:36] Uh, and the pesky Bianco, which is white fish with orzo pasta, cannellini beans, tomato sauce, garlic, anchovies, olives, capers, and artichokes served with grilled lemon and Calabrian chili. It is delicious. It is delicious. I had it when I went there recently. Uh, I had written off one country tutorial as sort of just, you know, all the garden in DCA.

[01:00:03] And I saw that they had a fish dish and I was hunting down fish dishes at the resort and I tried it and oh my God, it's so good. Um, not so enough for points, just pointing it out. Uh, there's also a short. Yeah. You've also got short rib, um, short rib pasta for $38 versus the short rib with, um, lobster ravioli for $50. Lobster ravioli, yeah. Well, but there's lobsters in there. Yeah. It's true.

[01:00:33] Um, that's, that's is what's the most expensive thing on your menu, Dan? $36. No, $38 for hearty short rib pasta. And right behind it is the pesca Bianco for 36. Yeah. Uh, which again, it's good. If you're in, and they have a grapefruit salad with grilled shrimp, turn it, add some shrimp on there. It's an entree. True. I made that joke before. Sorry. And then we have tomato, tomato salad, tomato salad, uh, whichever the tomato salad is $15. Tomato salad's $13.

[01:01:03] Uh, banana brulee tart is a plant-based thing. That is the plant in the plant-based section. And they have spaghetti, I'll aglio oleo. Sure. Let's call it that. Uh, we also have for Disney's, uh, kid check, uh, Disney kids, Disney check. I don't know. Those are words. You have a chicken breast. Just eat this dry chicken breast, kid. Salmon. Shut up and eat your fish.

[01:01:31] You know how much kids love the fish and pasta with marinara and meatballs. Again, I love the boldness of them going like, okay, you have this pasta that you're going to be comfortable with or chicken breast or a salmon. Here's what's interesting about this is so far that seems the Epcot menu is a lot more complex, right? It's bigger. It seems more complex, but here's what's interesting about the kids on trays.

[01:01:58] At California, chicken breast, salmon and pasta with marinara meatballs, 12, 12, $14 respectively. The salmon's 14. At Epcot, the more authentic it's mozzarella sticks, spaghetti, chicken tenders, green beans, or cheese or pepperoni pizza. And they're all cheaper. They're all $11 except for just green beans. Who gets a plate of green beans for $8? It's your vegetarian option.

[01:02:27] You can also get a cheese pizza. I actually really like that this restaurant in so many ways is basically like, this is not a family restaurant. Don't bring your kids here. My favorite is the kids create your own entrees. Selection is cheese pizza. Let's create your own. You get to choose one, either cheese pizza or... Oh, no, no. It's choose one cheese pizza. You got that. And then you get to choose between two of fresh yogurt or fresh fruit, yogurt, or broccoli.

[01:02:57] And then dessert for, I think, for everybody, you have lemon tiramisu, some non-alcoholic beverages, and there are six desserts for dolce at the other, tiramisu, cannoli, torta di girovinia. Yeah, two different... Well, but that's all stuff that if you didn't have... Limoncello float is interesting. I think this is all stuff, too, that like, if you didn't have it at the Italy Pavilion, people would be upset. Yeah, they would revolt.

[01:03:29] Do you have specialty cocktails? Yep. I'm not going to go over them, but let's see. We have two, four, six, eight, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 22, if I counted correctly. Mm-hmm. Uh, 22 different specialty cocktails. What do we got over at the... Well, they got grappa. They've got a grappa menu. I know you like grappa. We're approaching 40. Okay. Not counting wine or beer.

[01:03:59] Here's my favorite. In the Tuto menu, there's distinctly Italian cocktails. The first one is the Italian margarita. What's ingredient number one, the Italian margarita? Tequila. Uh, it's tequila. It's distinctly Italian. Tequila and limoncello. They mix it with margarita. They just like mix it with like marinara sauce or what? That's right. That's the espresso martini. It's the Alfredo. Alfredo margarita. Alfredo margarita.

[01:04:27] Alfredo margarita. That's the Italian pina colada. That's right. Yeah. And then, you know, wines, we have wine, but I think here it's more like the California take on wine rather than the... Yeah. I mean, that's the style. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I don't think there's a clear menu winner. It's kind of all over the place. You've got a bigger, more robust, more authentic menu for the adults. Kids menu is kind of simple.

[01:04:56] Uh, at Trattoria is less, sorry, wine country. Trattoria is less expensive. Generally speaking. Um, it's a little bit more of a California flair. You're not going to go to an authentic Italian restaurant and get grapefruit salad. You know what I mean? It's, there's a very California Napa-y flair, which makes sense because that's kind of what it is. So I think I want to let the people help us decide. Oh. Let's look at reviews of these restaurants and let the people decide.

[01:05:27] Chucho, uh, in the fours, usually. Okay. It's not as much fun as I was hoping to have, but go ahead. Sorry. Are you saying we're looking up, um, reviews on Yelp? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let me pull up. I do have some Yelp reviews here. I want some five stars. I want some one stars. See what you got. Okay. But then generally speaking, yeah, whichever has the highest rating overall, I think would probably be the winner. Mm-hmm. Oh no. That's general.

[01:05:59] 3.2 out of a little over a thousand reviews. Okay. Interesting. 3.2 about a thousand. Um, is that Yelp? Just so we're looking at the same thing. It's Yelp. Yeah. Okay. Eric. Uh, yeah. 533 reviews. The food and drinks here far exceeded our expectations. Everyone on our table just kept repeating, this can't be Disney food.

[01:06:27] Our server and attendant were fantastic. Kenny had great recommendation and was a very patient and was very patient with our menu and dining package questions. The food and wine far exceeded any expectations that any of us had. Wow. Kenny explained to us how to get our viewing area and how to read our vouchers. And the preferred seating area for our show was unobstructed and just barely, oh, that's another thing you can do a world of color dining package. That's the thing.

[01:06:55] Well, to, uh, but to be fair, I, I shouldn't say this if I'm really trying to win the argument, but to be fair, the dining package at DCA is kind of not necessary if you know how to do the, uh, So it's a dining package, but you're not watching the show while you're doing it. No, no, no, no, no. Right. Um, cause that would be a big old point if you could watch the show while eating the food. Yeah.

[01:07:20] Generally, uh, I think a lot of, uh, decided to slow things down with the meal at wine country. I did this and that being one of the most relaxing parts of my day sitting outside felt like a completely different world compared to the crowds just steps away. So yeah, you remember Jimmy, that place that, that place that we would go to get beer at Sonoma. Yeah. It's all one place. Right. Right. Yeah. So it's, it's that weird, like tucked away, but also like observational place.

[01:07:49] Um, and something that I'm seeing in a lot of these reviews generally is we went in and basically expecting it to suck because we hadn't really heard a lot about it. And it's really kind of understated. And given those expectations, we were blown away. Yeah.

[01:08:06] Which I think that's, that's another lens to look at this in, which is, and I'm saying this legitimately not as someone who's trying to win the argument necessarily is the expectations of going to the Epcot Italian place that I still can't remember the name of versus the expectations here. Yeah. And I think the expectation there is probably more heightened and whether that's fair or not, you know, uh, we're here.

[01:08:36] It's just like, Hey, come hang out. Yeah. Yeah. This is a, this is a California thing or just what's on the website, but I see allergy friendly menus at wine country. Yeah. I'm not seeing one at Epcot. It doesn't say anything about what. So it's just, uh, they'll straight up kill you there. They don't care. They're like, here, eat this. It says, so pull apart cheese bread for egg, fish, shellfish, peanut, tree nut, sesame, and soy allergies.

[01:09:03] And if you try to get your EpiPen out, they'll grab it from your hand and like hold it above your head. And they'll jam it in themselves. So the calamari says for peanut, tree nut, and sesame allergies, grapefruit salad. That's a Disneyland thing. That's not a tutorial. Egg, fish, shellfish. I just think it's interesting to know if generally at Disney world, I know they always have some kind of allergy friendly menu.

[01:09:31] I don't know if it's usually on the menu and you just get it provided for you. Yeah. You can always get it. Yeah. If you tell them you have food allergies, basically they'll give you a special menu. I mean, to the extent that I, and I think I've mentioned this before, I went to Cafe Orleans back when they had shrimp and grits, which they don't anymore. So they're dead to me. Um, and I put on my check-in thing, they're like, do you have any allergies?

[01:09:58] Now I have like mild poop related reactions to shellfish. Right. Um, but not like my throat's not going to close up. I'll just, it's just going to be kind of mildly unpleasant. But you famously love shellfish. Well, I actually do. Um, but he's sucking on one right now. Not even the corner of his mouth. It sounds a little slow.

[01:10:21] Um, so like I can do shrimp, but like if it's crab or lobster, I generally, I need, there needs to be a bathroom close by. Um, so I put on the thing, uh, shellfish allergy thinking I'm being honest, I guess. And I ordered shrimp and grits and the, the chef that was in charge at the time had to come out and like, talk to me. Oh, wow. And he was like, you said shellfish allergy.

[01:10:50] I can't give this to you unless we talk about the allergy. They do always come out. Yeah. And I said, that happens at every Disney restaurant in, in my experience. And I was just like, okay, I shouldn't have put that. Here's what I'm talking about. Right. I can do shrimp. I can blah, blah, blah, blah. I have no doubt that this is going to be fine. And he was like, there's a touch of crab in the room. Like touch of crab is great. Touch of crab is fine. And this was where again? Shrimp or Crips? Cafe Orleans.

[01:11:19] Cafe Orleans. Right. Right. Yeah. So yeah, Disney's very careful with food allergies. Here's a, Eric, do you have any five star reviews of yours? Oh, I've got plenty. Yeah. What's the average review? The average review is four out of five. It's interesting. Patina group looking at one star reviews and five star reviews lately.

[01:11:47] So in 2026, they have responded to almost every single review. Wow. Yeah. Here's, here's a good one. From one to five. What's that? All of them from one to five, they responded to. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so this is an excellent establishment with outstanding food. Our Uber driver recommended the restaurant. So we decided to give it a try. We're very glad we did. We'd pay the $150 to get into the theme park and then go. I'm like, what?

[01:12:17] Uh, but large mix of tables for, for large groups and smaller groups. There you go. I ordered the risotto. My sister had the spaghetti. Both were absolutely delicious. Uh, we were pretty worn out from the previous day. So we enjoyed some sangria. Definitely recommend this restaurant and we'll gladly return. And Patina group is like, we're happy to hear you enjoyed the outstanding food and attentive service at two toe Italia.

[01:12:46] This is from. I feel like they have like four pre-written responses. Yeah, probably. And then Dan, if you, if wine country had a, the owner response would be which cast member recruited you to come in and eat here. Well, to be fair, I think, I think they do that because they know it, you know, it's kind of hidden unless you, you don't know it's there unless you know it's there.

[01:13:13] But also I think, I don't think that the company is just like, you go out there and promote, like get people out. I think it was, I think it's more just like, Hey, this is actually a good place. Come, come manja. Yeah. The next review. Okay. Patina group response. We're Gabby. We're happy to hear you enjoyed the delicious risotto friendly service and generous portions. Uh, so they do respond to specific things that they brought up because in this one, Gabby H.

[01:13:41] Uh, said, I don't know. Um, we typically go for Via Napoli and this was a little bit of a different vibe, but we really enjoyed it. I had risotto. That was a special and it was delicious. Super friendly servers. Great time talking. Dessert was good. Portion sizes were very generous. Hmm. Uh, it's hard to take a box to go though, but well, if you're in Orlando, Orlando, she, she's, she lists herself as Orlando.

[01:14:10] The other person lists their location as Texas, Texas, Texas city, Texas. Uh, Oh, so Dan, I'd like to hear a one star review from both of you. Okay. I'm looking, I'm looking for a good one. Uh, Oh, right. I was just searching as you're looking, I'm thinking about 3.2 out of five by a thousand people. The restaurant's been open longer technically. Um, but it's largely a locals park.

[01:14:40] So if the locals don't want to go there, does that say something? I can tell you that the, the, what is getting the most is four stars. Okay. Um, well, I'd like to, I'd like to read, I'd like to hear a one star review from each. And I'd like to hear a three star review of each. Cause they're not saying it's horrible. They're not saying it's the best. Let me get something. So if this is from Frank a, he's an elite 26. I don't know what that means. He has 244 Italian food reviews.

[01:15:10] Uh, he's from Manhattan, New York. Disney is great at make-believe. The matter horn looks a lot like the real thing. And the food at wine country tutorial looks like Italian food too, but like the matter horn, it is just a plastic facsimile. I feel like Frank sat there thinking about this for a while. Well, I think Frank is an Italian food critic who happened to be at Disneyland with his family. Yeah.

[01:15:39] And I think that he was, it was probably billed as like, Hey, it's an Italian restaurant. Not just like it's in a restaurant with like Italian seasoning. Um, from Al B that's I'll be sure from the, that was a one star. That was a one star. And this is from Al B who I may or may not be. I'll be sure from the upcoming, uh, Bowie's planning episode, black tie, white noise. Eric, you'll get that joke later. If you remember it, uh, you might as well have been eating cafeteria food.

[01:16:09] We used to go here when we came to California, this as Disneyland, California adventure, $85 plus tip for three. Plus we split one meal. Stay away. One star. Um, one star. All right. How about a, uh, one star from, uh, two toe. Okay. I'll summarize two pretty good ones. Um, we were in Epcot from my mother-in-law's 75th birthday.

[01:16:36] We were a party of 11 and basically they, they couldn't, they said they couldn't guarantee they could be seated together, but they made it happen. Uh, they put them in the cellar section of the restaurant, but there was only one waiter and everything took 30 minutes. Uh, and there was a guy who was intoxicated and loud. Worst dining experience we've had at the parks.

[01:17:03] Uh, we were just trying to get out in time to watch the fireworks. They liked the fireworks. Uh, let's see here. Um, I should have asked her to comp the fettuccine since no one ate it. We would never go back here. The food food was. So this is interesting. The food was nothing to write home about. The calamari was good. The bread was fresh and hot. Two guests had risotto. They liked it. All right. Lasagna. Not great. Chicken Parmesan was a big portion. Tasted. Okay. That's a weird. I did.

[01:17:33] I did a quick search. I did a quick search for ambience or ambience, depending on how you want to say it. Um, uh, and across the board, even the, let me see, even the like one or two star reviews are saying that the, the vibe and ambience is like great. Even if you're not into the food. Um, okay. So, uh, Eric, what did patina group say in response to that one?

[01:18:01] In response to that one, Kimberly, we're sorry to hear about your disappointing experience with the service and food. We appreciate your feedback. We will address these issues with our team to improve future visits. Thank you for sharing. Lovely. Um, how about a three star review somewhere right in the middle? Okay. There's somebody who's complaining that their wine was $110 a glass, but that seems like their problem because they even posted a picture of the menu.

[01:18:30] Yeah. Why would you order it and then complain about it? Cause they said they asked for a taste and then they ordered the one they liked and their server was like, you ordered $110 glass of wine. You have to pay for that. I'm not saying that on the menu. Um, I'm going to go with, this is from Brian F. He's also an elite 26 from orange County, California. Um, his 47 wine bar reviews. So we're going in that direction here.

[01:19:00] Okay. Wine country tutorial is a table service restaurant located at the performance corridor area of Disney, California adventure park. It's supposed to resemble Napa Valley wine country and Italian decor with the rustic look. We made reservations and were seated at their outdoor patio area for the appetizers. I liked the fried green beans and the fried calamari. Although the calamari was on the smaller side, the pulled part cheesy bread was cheesy and I liked the pesto on top.

[01:19:29] It sounded like you said part cheesy bread. My favorite entrees were the shrimp Alfredo, the hearty short rib pasta. I liked the breaded cutlet in the chicken Parmesan and the split is like spaghetti. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. These was just okay. Even though it's a wine themed restaurant, they also offer cocktails. I had the Blanco Negroni, which was herbaceous and floral. There is also a pretty good kids menu with healthy options.

[01:19:58] This sit down restaurant is a good option. That's a step above the quick service stalls, but it's still very casual. It's centrally located in the park, making it a good spot for a break between one between rides. Eric, do you have a three star? Yeah, I found an elite 26 here from Vernon Hills, Illinois. It's Bell and had dinner here during our trip. They do not have a separate GF menu, but offer GF pasta options and bread.

[01:20:27] I ordered the penny pasta and white wine spritzer. The spritzer did not have much wine. It wasn't very good. The food was decent. They do not have a lot of GF options for dessert. Interesting. Um, girlfriend, right? Yeah, that's right. So what did a patina group have to say about that? Uh, they didn't respond to this one. Here, I'll read a different one. Bill, thank you for sharing your feedback. We were glad to hear you enjoyed the roving hosts and we appreciate your comments.

[01:20:57] Your insights are valuable as we work to improve our guest experience. Okay. He said, um, the nine dragons in China is a far superior experience. I disagree. That's, that's the, but the comparison thing that I keep coming to is like, I, so one time I thought of going to one of the restaurants in the Italy pavilion and I was like, but I have like Caesar's palace. Right. And also France is over there.

[01:21:24] And I feel like if France is Costco, then Italy pavilions like Sam's club, you know, like, it's like, you kind of go there when you can't get the reservation for France or Canada. And you're like, maybe, but it's Italian. But if you're right. Yeah. It's, it's an interesting point. Epcot is full of food. There's 11 countries all have their distinct, uh, cuisine and you have choices. Right.

[01:21:53] But if I want Italian food, I go to Italy. I want Japanese food to go to Japan. Now, California adventures by nature of its size doesn't have as many sit down dining options. Right. So as a result, should they be of superior quality for what they're trying to do? Because there's more or that. So that, and on top of that, shouldn't they do what they're trying to do?

[01:22:18] Well, so you have this, you have Carthay, uh, which also has a lounge with a separate menu, uh, lamplight. What am I missing? Is that it? It's kind of it. Like sit down. That is it. So there's only sounds like three of them. Oh, the soap opera bistro. Yeah. No, sorry. So you've got three sit down dining restaurants. Should they not all be three exquisite experiences? Cause they're so limited. Um, I don't know.

[01:22:46] Whereas Epcot, you know, you can just be a good Italian restaurant because you know, if you want Japanese food, go get Japanese food or whatever. Right. And I don't know about the reservation thing. And quite frankly, I'm tired of talking about it. So I think ultimately it's hard for me to decide this because of all the things we talked about. I agree with you, Dan is a much better ambiance at wine country.

[01:23:07] Um, whereas I mean, for, for, for the park that you're in and the sort of moment that it's kind of made for, it's really, it's, it's a fan. It, it's like one of those things where like, okay, it's two o'clock. I'm tired. I would love to hang out there. Yeah. It is kind of nice to sit outside and in the breeze and everything. I've never been inside there. I didn't. That's why I asked if there was even inside dining.

[01:23:34] It turns out there's a lady, there's like a, yeah, there's a few tables, but I think, I think it's because that one, that lady at one of her visits, she threw all the other tables outside. This is unacceptable. That's where the tables go. Two-toe is a little cheesy with the ambiance. Well, I don't know how authentic it is. Living up to the Disney stereotype is the point, right? Yeah. It's like the Japanese. I mean, you got the teppanyaki, you got sushi, you've got the Yoshinoya type place or whatever.

[01:24:02] I mean, it's just, it's doing what it's supposed to do. Right. Yeah. And mine country doesn't know what it's supposed to do. Well, it's supposed to be a relaxing, chill place. Yeah. It's where they landed with it. I think that's what it's evolved into. But to me, it's Napa. It's vacation. To be fair, to be fair, I think that if it wasn't, if the other place wasn't over the top, Italian, you know, then like, I mean.

[01:24:29] Oh, wait, we've got to, we've got to talk more about Italian. Hang on. Because it's catering. Yeah. It's, it's catering very much to an audience who would complain if their sushi didn't taste like soy sauce. Right? Uh huh. Fair. So, like. Such a good choice. Oh, it's still going. Oh, oh.

[01:25:02] All right. I'm tired of talking about it. I'm going to just, I can't decide. So I'm going to let the people decide. Do we want closing arguments? Oh, sure. You need, you have the golden dreams. Eric, closing arguments. Okay. Hold on. Oh, it's still going. Where did it go? Well, Eric's first because he, uh, his restaurant came first. No, no, no. Eric, I'll cue you. Unless I'm playing it for you. Where is the.

[01:25:26] Uh, well, what I like about, uh, I didn't actually write a closing argument. As, as we'll find out. Um, do you want me to go first? No, hang on. Um, I actually do have some notes here. All right. So while you're looking at that, my kind of, uh, points to. Here we go. Since you guys did the work. Points to wine country for. Ambiance. I'm going to give it. When you're here. You're family.

[01:25:55] Uh, points to, um, to, to Italia because they're trying to be more authentically Italian with their menu, the antipasti, the second, the, whatnot. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Point to wine country for, um, for a less expensive dining experience. When you're here. You're family.

[01:26:24] Point to, to, to Italia for having a fricking grappa menu. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. My wife says it tastes like, uh, gasoline. So for those listening at home, for those listening at home, I like to call it the, uh, hot dog of after dinner drinks because after they make the wine, they take the stems and the seeds and the skins and they ferment that.

[01:26:52] So it is the hot dog of after dinner drinks and it is fantastic and it is quite a digestif as they say. All right. Closing argument. Have we gotten into land impact or would it matter if we did? I think we kind of already did, you know, kind of describe where it was and what the atmosphere was. And I think as far as land impact, I mean, you could talk about it. I don't, I don't want to shut you down. I mean, it's basically just what it is interesting because it's part of wine country is basically just this complex.

[01:27:23] And so this is part of that Sonoma Terrace, Mendocino Terrace. Yeah. And this is in the middle. That's kind of it. And it's, I don't know. I just want to make sure. What's interesting about the land impact is that to your earlier points, a lot of people don't know what's there. Right. You know, so it's not really impacting. It's kind of absorbed by or is kind of hiding in plain sight. But maybe there's no real impact until you're in there.

[01:27:51] Then there's a lot of impact because of all the things we talked about. Whereas Eric. I would argue that Tutto Italia also doesn't have much of a land impact because when you walk in, you see Via Napoli at the back. Right. And Tutto. It kind of blends into its environment. It's on the left. Yeah. It blends in. Like there's a giant fountain to look at, a big tower to look at. A tower, a wine bar when you walk in. Yeah. I mean, the wine bar is attached to Tutto. No, I mean, sorry. When I say wine bar, I mean a wine store.

[01:28:21] Like that's the first thing you come to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're more, it does really kind of blend in. It's kind of weird. Yeah. They kind of both do. Right. All right. So Eric, closing arguments for Tutto Italia. Okay.

[01:28:38] Tutto Italia was the beginning of a major transformation as Epcot was trying to step up their restaurant game from their early days and bringing in, bringing in this new restaurant group. Well, I don't know if the rest, I don't know the history of Patina, but bringing in this restaurant group to kind of help revitalize a lot of these restaurants and, and get fresh new ideas in there.

[01:29:09] It's, it's based on, it's based on Naples and Southern Italy. And it celebrates the diversity of Italian cuisine. Uh, the, like I said, they, they try to rotate the menu and bring in, bring in fresh chefs and focus on different dishes from several regions around Italy to make a more, uh, authentic experience.

[01:29:36] It's, uh, it's, it's definitely part of the, you know, part of the, the pavilion. It, it, you know, should be there. Uh, but there is also another, another Italian restaurant at the back owned by the same group that serves pizza. Yeah. And for my money, if you're going to eat an Italian restaurant in the Epcot area, just go to Trattori Al Forno. Al Forno is great too. Yeah. It's at a boardwalk. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:30:06] Dan, I'd like to hear your closing argument. I want to concede something. My opponent is right about all of it. Disney world as a whole has the illusion of authenticity, real artwork, chefs with names, real region, volcanoes named correctly. If the question in front of us is which restaurant is more authentically Italian, I lose. I lose badly. I'd like that noted, but I don't think that's the question.

[01:30:32] See, I've been trying to figure out why I keep going back to a mid tier Italian restaurant in a theme park. $38 for a ribeye. A patio with air conditioning is more of a rumor than a fact. You can hear a robot tow truck singing on from your table. On paper, I have no business defending this place. And yet there's a moment. I think everybody in this room has had it. After about 10 hours on your feet, your phone's dead. Your back hurts.

[01:31:01] The kids or the friends or whoever you dragged along, they're fading. And you sit down. Somebody brings you bread. The lights going gold over a wall that's pretending to be Tuscany. And for about 45 minutes, nobody needs anything from you. That's not Italy. My opponent's correct. It was never Italy. It's the afternoon your mother hoped she was giving you. It's the olive garden from the commercial. Not the one that exists. The one in your memory.

[01:31:31] The one where everyone's a little happier and the wine catches the light and nobody's checking the bill. Epcot built a monument to a place. This place built a monument to a feeling. And I've come to believe that's harder and rarer. And when it works, it's worth more. Marilyn Haggerty understood that. Bourdain understood it about her. They weren't asking whether the olive garden was good.

[01:32:00] They were asking whether it took care of the people who walked in. Whether it hosted their ordinary, breakable, once in a lifetime moments with little grace. By that standard, the standard I actually trust, the wine country Tertoria clears the bar. It is warm. It is comforting.

[01:32:30] It is, God help me. Cute as hell. The court finds it to be the best olive garden in the Disney parks. Manja. Because when you're here, you're family. I gotta work on my closing arguments. You really do.

[01:33:00] Every step of this, Chituto was gonna win. Like, that's a very compelling argument. Wow. I gotta have some passion for my... Wow, you really do. Holy crap. You know what? I can't. I can't. All right. I can't betray myself. Oh. Like I said, I still can't decide. It's really hard to argue with Dan's point.

[01:33:30] Although you might make the same point about a family in Florida. I don't know. I'm gonna let the people speak. The people said four out of five for Tuto and the people said 3.2 out of five at Wine Country. Clearly, Tuto is the more popular Italian restaurant inside of Second Gate. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Anything? Anything to add?

[01:34:00] And I think, to be honest, if it wasn't the winner, people would be upset. Yeah. And if... And anyone who finds out... When people find out that Trattoria isn't the winner here, they'll probably go like, yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I still like it, but yeah. And for those of you who need an Italian translation, Tuto Italia means all of Italy.

[01:34:27] I need to visit Viennopoli when I'm in Epcot next week so that I can actually try their pizza. Although, we were talking about... Sorry, before we close, we were talking about the next episode, not the next, but a future episode being the Napoli v. Napoli. We got the one in Downtown Disney versus the other one in Epcot. But do we not do a Patina Italian and do Napoli? Well, I guess...

[01:34:57] They're both Patina. But is there a Patina Italian at Disney? Downtown Disney? Yeah, that's Napoli. Yeah. So I wonder if we don't do the Patino Italian. But anyway, story front of the time. Eric, may I suggest when Jimmy goes to signing out stuff, may I suggest that you play another one of our Italian songs? Oh, I have that cued up. Perfect. Yes. Okay. Okay.

[01:35:22] Well, before we do, I would like to just officially say that Tutto Italia is the supreme Italian restaurant inside a second gate. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Anyway, well, thank you for listening. If this is your first episode, thank you for coming. Come back and listen to us again another time. There are other shows on this network. The Ears Up podcast network, Ears Up, where you can hear Eric once again in his dulcet tones.

[01:35:52] And they talk about Disneyland sometimes. And then you've got the Puny Pod. It's a Marvel rewatch. They've got to be at Endgame by now, right? Oh, they passed Endgame a while ago. Okay. They're starting over again? No, they're... What was their last one? I'm blanking. They're doing Endgame in 3D this time. Well, it's going to be re-released before Doomsday, which I'm very excited about. I already have my tickets for Spider-Man. Anyway, all Disney properties. And then other shows.

[01:36:20] And then there's also the Star Wars one. Are we still doing that? Banff Milk is back. Yes. With Mandalore and Grogu. Their last one was on... Oh my goodness, I just listened to it yesterday. Was there... Are there other shows on the network I'm not keeping up with? There's Buena Vista Boys. That's right. They review the live action, the old live action movies from... Old Yeller, et cetera. Yeah.

[01:36:50] I don't think they've gotten to Old Yeller. I have standing offer for me to watch Perry with them. Yes. Well, if you want to hear a review of Perry, then you can listen to Scraping the Vault. That's right. Our special Valentine's Day episode. But that is... If you want to dare to go off the network, there's Hub Crawl. Hub Crawl's great. And Bowie's planning. Is DL Weekly still a thing? Yes. Great. Yes, they have a new host.

[01:37:20] All right. And then Bowie's planning is a wonderful delight. We are currently... We just finished Tin Machine. Just released today. We will not be doing Tin Machine 2. So those of you who are aware of the Bowie catalog, we're about to get into what I would argue is when things get good again. Eric, have you listened to Black Tie, White Noise at all? Not yet. No. Okay. All right. So listen to that show and it is also very good.

[01:37:49] They're a delight together, those two. Well, thank you again for listening. And until next time, be good to each other. And until next time... Manja. The resort is adjourned. Hey, paisanos! It's the Super Mario Brothers Super Show! And plumbing's a game right now.